Call Me Maybe - An Analysis & Defence

I have spent today clearing out old files, and came across a detailed analysis I onnce wrote of the rationality of  the main character in Carly Rae Jepsen's Call Me, Maybe. Start your 2021 off right by seeing what 2012 me thought could be said in defence of the rational good standing of this pop song classic.

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Recently a friend brought my attention to the following analysis (see this as well) of the hit song Call Me Maybe by Carly Rae Jepsen. I think both analyses quite fundamentally mistaken, and since I am a fan of the song I think it deserves better. So here’s my own crack at the whip. Note that I will follow the blog post in taking the song lyrics as canonical, rather than events as they (amusingly) transpire in the video.


My problem with both of the above analyses is: they use game theory, rather than individual decision theory. Now at first this might seem crazy – isn’t it obvious that the situation involves (at least) two rational agents, with the outcome dependent on choices by both players? And such a situation is just the sort which should be dealt with using game theory rather than individual decision theory. Both of the linked to analyses seem to think to, as their approach is to outline what the optimum strategy for Carly is, given the payoff matrix they think the song describes.


The thing is, Call Me, Maybe doesn’t actually describe a payoff matrix at all. We get a fairly good idea about what Carly wants, it’s true. But here is all we know about the person being called: they are male (since other males are referred to as “other boys”), they are not particularly forthcoming with their feelings (they take a while to call, and then give “nothing at all”), they are prone to staring (“stare was holding”) and are scantily clad (“ripped jeans, skin was showin’”). This is not very much at all. It is certainly no basis for attributing a particular pay off matrix to the fellow.  The situation is worse than it just not being possible to give a determinate payoff matrix. It’s not actually obvious that the situation involves two rational agents at all. Carly self-describes her own actions as “crazy” even while performing them; all we know about the fellow’s behaviour is emotional aloofness and a penchant for long bouts of staring. Given the difficulties game theory runs into when dealing with non-rational agents, and given that we – both Carly nor the modellers – are operating under insufficient information to form a payoff matrix for the fellow, I submit that using game theory to model this interaction is the wrong way to go about it.


None of this, however, prevents modelling the situation decision theoretically. In fact I think there is a very simple model of the situation which would explain the logic of Carly’s actions and manage to explain some of the more obscure lines in the song. 


Although the circumstances are vague (don’t ask her, she’ll “never tell”; my guess is that it is a club which she has paid to enter – “pennies and dimes for a kiss”) Carly has met a man. She doesn’t have much information about the fellow (“I just met you”) but feels some attraction to him (“I took no time with the fall”), presumably based on his looks (“It’s hard to look right at you baby”). Given this, she considers exchanging contact details, and would prefer it if he called her back (“Here’s my number // Call me, maybe?”). However, alas, we all know that becoming romantically involved with handsome strangers is a risky business. So Carly must also consider – if I do interact with this person, will they turn out to be a total jerkface? Because if he is a jerkface, she’d rather they just didn’t get involved at all. The knowledge that she may end up involved with a jerkface is, I claim, is the reason for her expressing hesitancy (“Call me, maybe?”) 


Simplifying all the ways a person can be a jerkface into them being “not nice” we can create a table which makes clear the decision Carly faces:




Now, she needn’t consider the scenario where she doesn’t give him her number in order to make her decision. After all, if she chooses not to interact with this person, then it really doesn’t matter much to Carly what he is like, so the outcome is the same either way. So I take it she really only cares about his character if she actually does go ahead and give her number to this chap. Hence she need only consider the first row.


I make the assumption that the best and worst case scenarios are as good and bad as each other compared to meh scenario. In this case standard decision theory tells us that Carly's decision boils down to a simple question: is he more likely nice or not nice? If it is more likely that he is nice, then she is probably going to get the best case scenario out of giving him her number. If he is more likely horrid, then she is probably going to get the worst case scenario. So give her number if he seems nice, and don’t give her number if he doesn’t seem nice. 


We can thus make sense of the song, including some of its more obscure lines, if we see much of it as her deliberations on the matter. For instance, she frequently mentions her interactions with other men (“All the other boys try to chase me” is in the chorus). This, I claim, is Carly thinking about the frequency with which similar interactions with men have resulted in good vs bad outcomes. (On one interpretation of probability this is perhaps the only relevant thing to consider). Another line is about Carly doing all she can to gather information about the fellow (“I beg and borrow and steal”). She even explicitly mentions – and praises – her own ability to make judgements (“Have foresight and it’s real”). 


In the end she decides that, though it is crazy, she is going to give the fellow her number. Our last task will be to explain why she judges giving her number to the fellow to be crazy. I think we can rule out the possibility she decided that she has enough information to know the fellow is nice. If she knew that, giving him the number just wouldn’t be crazy.  So given that, there are two ways of interpreting the “This is crazy” line, depending on whether you think Carly is herself rational. 


The first, less charitable way of looking at it, is that after thinking about it, she comes to the decision that it is more likely the fellow is horrid than not horrid… and then still decides to give her his number, even knowing that. So she self-describes the action as “crazy” because she knows it is irrational. This might also explain why she has resorted to a life of crime (“I beg and borrow and steal”) – she is trying to impress somebody she believes to be a bad boy. Likewise it might explain why he is emotionally aloof (“You gave me nothing at all”) – one way of being a jerkface is to just not care about the person you are involved with.


However, I don’t like this way of looking at it. It presents Carly as irrational and I would prefer not to do that. There are philosophical issues about how we could possibly come to learn about Carly’s preferences in a way that would make sense of this. And, finally, she seems to be happy about his involvement in her life even in retrospect, and wants to express gratitude to him (“Before you came into my life I missed you so bad… and you should know that”). So I prefer a second, more charitable way of looking at it, which preserves Carly’s rationality.


The story one has to tell for the second interpretation is, I admit, a bit more complex. It goes as follows. Carly feels, for whatever reason, that she just has to make a decision on this immediately (that is why, I think, she frequently says that he is “in my way” – Carly means that this decision is facing her now). This renders it impossible to gather more information. Unfortunately she does not feel she has enough information at present to decide the matter. So, perhaps because she is applying the principle of indifference, she thinks it just as likely the man is nice as it is that he’s horrid. The two cases are equally likely, and in this scenario giving him the number is just as rational as not giving him her number. So she has taken a chance: as a result of some randomisation procedure she has chosen the optimistic over the pessimistic course of action, and handed over her number. Speaking loosely she describes this as “crazy”. Strictly speaking, it is a perfectly rational act given her information and desires, but there would be no pop-music potential in the chorus “Hey, I just met you // and this is a rationally permissible but non-obligatory action// here’s my number // so call me, maybe?” What is more, I think we can all understand her sense of excitement, as she makes her move here – she is taking a step into the unknown, taking a risk for the sakes of love after rational thinking had stopped being a useful guide. There is a certain romance to this, and thus I submit it a more fitting interpretation of the song.

Comments

  1. "If he is more likely horrid, then she is probably going to get the worst case scenario. So give her number if he seems nice, and don’t give her number if he doesn’t seem nice. "

    i think you are onto something here, and i think you are right not to use 2 actor game theory, but i have a slightly different interpretation of some of the lyrics that comes from keeping the man of her interest in mind, or at least how she is thinking about the man of her interest. she is perceiving him as making the same judgment of her as nice vs not nice

    when i sang my first girlfriend The National - Slow Show, the lyrics made her go:
    "You know I dreamed about you" (she said 'aw that's true', because i'd mentioned a dream she was in earlier that day)
    "For twenty-nine years before I saw you" (this made her recoil)


    i think this Carly thought is similar to The National lyric: "Before you came into my life I missed you so bad… and you should know that”

    the man *should* know that she missed him before meeting him (that's weird), but the drama of the song is that she is not telling him. she has an unhealthy level of interest that is not driven by him as a person (she doesn't know very much about him), and she is trying to hide it with 'maybe' and 'this is crazy' (freudian slip)

    but i also don't want to call carly irrational! imo she is speaking a deep human truth about professing romantic interest and how in the initial stages it does not make a lot of sense because of the emotional difficulty of asking vs the lack of information you have about the person

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    1. Thank you for sharing this interesting perspective!

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  2. Hi! It's 3 night-time in Sweden. Winter is finally here, the night air is not a black but the ethereal reflection of the snow. I'm wide awake and want to learn something.

    The technical assumption
    > I make the assumption that the best and worst case scenarios are as good and bad as each other compared to meh scenario.
    does not seem reasonable, it is not difficult to conjure circumstances in which this assumption breaks. Even if we grant that we can model the guy as a binary 'nice'/'horrid', there are reasonable circumstances where one outcome is much more severe than the other: For instance, if the men there (generally at that location) typically engage in heavy stalker behaviour upon rejection.

    This technical assumption only resurfaces at the very end
    > So, perhaps because she is applying the principle of indifference, she thinks it just as likely the man is nice as it is that he’s horrid.
    where the point as I understand it is that using the principle of indifference + technical assumption we get an expected neutral outcome.

    I can very much agree with the general idea here but it seems so heavy handed to introduce such a constraining assumption. Is this done because there is no clear substitute for principle of indifference if we don't simplify the outcome space so much?

    Contrast with a more permissive framing of what I imagine to be the same idea could be something like
    1. She doesnt know the expected outcome of this chap in ripped jeans.
    2? But she says what the heck and assumes the expected outcome on average is neutral with chaps in ripped jeans.
    This model of the situation does not allow us to incarnate the principle of indifference at 2? because we are not talking about probabilities anymore. My question is whether there is something similar to principle of indifference which could justify 2?, or a comment about the problems of trying to construct principles to justify 2?.

    Excuse my 3:30 am typing if you are so kind, cheers

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    1. Ok first of all just wanna say I love this a lot.

      Second of all, I am not sure I follow, but my first guess is your proposal that we treat her as not making a specific probabilistic assumption, but instead trying to reason about uncertainty in a situation where she doesn't have enough information to apply usual decision theoretic reasoning. If so, I have explored that just a tiny bit in the context of thinking about COVID, so you can see a bit of writing on it here. Check these out and see if they have anything relevant to what you are interested in:

      https://www.liamkofibright.com/uploads/4/8/9/8/48985425/pandemic_decisions.pdf

      https://sootyempiric.blogspot.com/2020/04/the-masque-of-rona.html

      So maybe some of the principles discussed therein will help. Good luck!

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    2. BEGIN 1/2
      I've been meaning to follow up on this for quite some time. Matter of fact, my original post here was made after procrastrinating this account I am about to give! It was concieved with the aid of my girl friend during grocery shopping, after reading this interesting blog post.

      Given that Wednessday is Little Saturday, today has to be Little Sunday and I am just the right amount of hungover. Let's get to the meat of it!

      I come to the same conclusion, the main character (let's call her Teller, as she is the story teller) seems to act 'reasonably'. My reasons are a bit different. Let us begin by outlining things I think we learn about Teller, and Caller, the chap in the ripped jeans who eventually calls her.

      The listener is presented with three scenarios.

      1. Adressing Caller by the wishing well
      Somewhere, probably outdoors due to the prominent presence of the elements (hot night, wind was blowing), Teller tosses a coin in the wishing well as she lays her eyes upon Caller. She decides to make a move and give him her number. We will come back to the cryptic line "I trade my soul for a wish, pennies and dimes for a kiss."

      2. Reminiscing the call
      Teller had to wait quite some time for Caller to call her. When he eventually did, she was hit like a truck. All lines talk about the past except for "I beg, and borrow and steal, have foresight and it's real", which we will come back to.

      3. Reunion with more reminiscing
      Teller and Caller run into eachother. Teller tells Caller about the profound impact that he has had on her. It would be very plausible that Teller was talking to herself if it wasn't for the formulation "and you should know that".

      Let's talk about what significance these scenarios have for Teller. I will do some flimsy psychologizing.

      1. Adressing Caller by the wishing well
      This is the moment of decision that we take interest in. I don't think we have sufficient information to tell whether she was being rational or not, because Teller knows a lot of things that we do not know, but I think that we can tell whether she is acting reasonably/with surface-level rationality.

      Standing by the well, Teller is reconsidering her life. She is embarrassed to admit that she actually tossed a coin in a wishing well ("I threw a wish in the well, don't ask me, I'll never tell"). She writes as though the obstacle of Caller was the consequence of this wish. I believe Caller was the inevitable consequence of the wish. She wanted to become a more outgoing risk taker and needed a target.

      She walks up to Caller and tells him as much.

      With "I trade my soul for a wish, pennies and dimes for a kiss" she means that this transformation means discarding her soul, her old self, and that the coins in the well are a tribute for the reward of being a risk taker: A kiss from a stranger.

      "I wasn't looking for this, but now you're in my way" is a way of acknowledging the fact that the situation is a little absurd, at least in her own mind. This personality transformation is not something that becomes internalized in an instant, she is still awkward about her own actions. This self-aware awkwardness is also very evident in the chorus.

      2. Reminiscing the call
      Teller realizes that Caller is not actually interested in her. Still, she is someone who usually does the taking, in a quite calculated way, "I beg, and borrow and steal, have foresight and it's real." This is a comment on how she is in general, hence the change from past tense. She acknowledges that this obsession with Caller is new to her, "I didn't know I would feel it, but it's in my way." Teller is learning new things about herself as a consequence of taking on a new persona.

      Caller gives no reciprocation during or after this call, "You gave me nothing at all."
      END 1/2

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    3. BEGIN 2/2
      3. Reunion with more reminiscing
      Teller hasn't spoken to Caller in relation to this predicament of hers since reminiscing about the call. Paradoxically, she tells him that he was exactly who she needed in her life, and says that she feels he ought to know that. Up until this point, Teller is probably a very strange and kind of desperate figure in Caller's eyes. We do not learn the outcome of this conversation.

      Still, we as listeners learn that Teller is very happy with her transformation.

      Let us tie this story together. We can infer that the Caller she says she missed so bad is mostly a product of her own imagination, and probably quite different from the Caller she is talking to at the end: She picked an attractive stranger to share contact details and fall in love with, and talks about how he ignores/rejects her at the same time that she is talking about her obsession with him.

      Now, let us take on the question: Was she being reasonable?

      I argue that she acted in a way that protected her own self-interest by becoming less risk averse. We don't know much about Teller from before the song, but she seems quite down-trodden in the beginning and elated at the end, which indicated to me that her less risk averse state of being is working out well for her.

      I believe that it is hard to demonstrate that she embarked on this specific transformation for solid reasons. She was unhappy and needed a change, but how could she know this was the right one? She seemed self-aware of being risk averse, which is why she forced herself to overshare with Caller by the wishing well.

      I don't think that Teller has more solid reasons for wanting to make this change than 'intuition'. So I don't think that she was being rational. Admittedly, I can't know that she didn't have explicit reasons, but I don't think most people have explicit reasons!

      Despite this, I think she was being reasonable. She managed to identify a source of unhappiness in herself and set out on a quest to set this straight. She did not fall into usual traps of inaction or losing track of what's important: Being rejected by Caller was not a setback, because winning the love of Caller was never the point.

      Furthermore, I think that the self-awareness shown by Teller in the navigation of all of this, and the success, both speak to the strength and precision of her intuition.

      I want to hold the use of the word 'rational' to a higher standard, a standard which can satisfy the needs of interpersonal disputes. Intuitions alone are not fit for that purpose. But when it comes to the personal, the way that we expect our friends to treat themselves and us, I think we can fall back on intuition for the most part. As long as intuition does not clash with prior evidence, I think that we can label that as 'reasonable.'

      Therefore, I believe that we don't learn that Teller is rational, but that she is reasonable, in sharing her phone number with Caller.
      END 2/2

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    4. I just have so much respect for you.

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    5. Thank you, that's very flattering.

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